There are hundreds (probably thousands) of Moths falling rightwards off the Help Carousel into a very deep pit.
For some reason more and more people are posting a single bad picture of the moth-in-a-bedroom and hoping for an ID
I am not specially interested enough in Moths to spend the time getting them to Family - I believe that is ALL that’s needed in most cases.
But there are special problems with bringing them together.
Here is a project
https://www.ispotnature.org/communities/uk-and-ireland/view/project/759755/unided-british-moths which collects only those with a tag - only 134
Can you help with ideas
○ how to get to the bottom of the pit
○ how best to get them into Families; or even
○ whether adding the ID Heterocera (not Lepidoptera) is good enough
○ should we bother at all
Picture edited out
Ohhh, moths! So many of them, so many so pretty much alike, as well.
A laudable effort on your behalf, but the issue is symptomatic of the real problem: as iSpot recovers popularity, the sheer number of posts means that most quickly drop off people’s radar.
What iSpot needs is something like the old mentor system (I assume that died?): skilled users who have the time and dedication to wade through the mass of missing, dubious, or downright wrong identifications. I am finding that even the job of adding my standard remarks about difficult Pyraustas to the frequent posts of that genus is a bit - well, not daunting, but repetitive and ineffective. I greatly respect the work being put in by the stalwarts of the site, who give their time to researching, advising, and providing moral support.
We need a slogan along the lines of “an iSpot post is not just for Christmas…”
In the early days team iSpot invested a lot of time recruiting the knowledgeable amateurs and professionals to be on here, visiting natural history societies and the like to encourage people to get involved (that’s how they got me). I think some of those people moved away during some of the difficulties when the site transitioned to the new system and that has left us with a gap (it was working pretty well at scale before).
Probably needs the team to do another similar exercise to get more enthusiastic somewhat knowledgeable people back engaged.
…an iSpot is not just for Christmas
Yes, you are both right, and I’m pretty jaded to be honest. I spend too long helping people who have already left or who couldn’t care much less or didn’t really want help in the first place - just wanted to publish a picture.
I still get a huge amount of learning from this place by just responding to others. And I like to pile a lot into my own posts - those things are holding me here…
None of that alters the fact that iSpot is losing far more than it is gaining (I believe) at the moment.
So my plea remains - if you can keep a post out of the Doldrums, away from the Pit or from ‘dropping off the radar’ - PLEASE do it.
HOPELESS?
I am wondering whether my good intentions are bad ones.
It seems a hopeless task to even find the mothis in iSpot.
I thought I’d made a breakthrough this morning, going here https://www.ispotnature.org/communities/uk-and-ireland/species-dictionary/NHMSYS0020797234/heterocera because there is a carousel. There was me thinking it might be a good way to see ALL moths. It isn’t!
Is there a way you can help @miked ?
Anyway maybe it’s far too late to start but someone has to start and iSpot may run for another ten years yet!
Perhaps it should be noted that most moths that drop of the carousel without an identification are quite frankly unidentifiable for various reasons which I will not go into.
Yes. It’s usually because the photos are abysmal and the user often leaves iSpot immediately after posting!
THERE, I’ve said it!
Maybe the solution is to inappropriate them after a month - IF we can find them!
Picture edited OUT
That one I suspect could attract an ID (albeit not a species level one) as it is a crambid of some kind.
yes, thanks. Done https://www.ispotnature.org/communities/uk-and-ireland/view/observation/731329/unknown-moth BUT There are loads of others in these two projects
https://www.ispotnature.org/communities/uk-and-ireland/view/project/759755/unided-british-moths
https://www.ispotnature.org/communities/uk-and-ireland/view/project/758615/butterflies-and-moths-of-the-world-without-likely-id
COMMENT DELETED by ðerek
iSpot is not properly monitored, if it was we wouldn’t be in this position. There are far too many unidentified things described as moths alone, I expect the same applies to other groups of animals and plants. Rubbish photos are uploaded to iSpot with no hope of identification. A blanket removal of all unidentified subjects may not be the answer, IMHO good photos should be allowed to stay. The answer may be to have a monitor for each group who can make the Delete decision after a year. It would be good to know if the people responsible for iSpot could comment and show that someone is at least taking note of these comments.
DELETED by me - no-one responded
Up and running https://www.ispotnature.org/communities/uk-and-ireland/view/project/769755/historic-unidentified-moths-updated
Previous Comment here overwritten
Underpinning the Moth Project is the Unidentified Inverts one. Where just two of us are removing ALL the Pictureless posts and moving the Moths from one Pit to another.
It is a VERY dynamic project often changing by the minute in the evenings
Follow it here
https://www.ispotnature.org/communities/uk-and-ireland/view/project/769326/marking-moths-and-deleting-blanks
I’d much rather the ‘rubbish’ photos stayed and people provided as much as an ID as possible, ideally combined with a description of what else would be needed to get an ID.
Given an important part of iSpot is enouraging beginner naturalists having someone say something along the lines of "your photo was rubbish so we’ve deleted your content’ would probably be quite off-putting.
I am appalled at the state of Moths here.
Now that Helen and I have moved nearly 900 moths into the project, ONE at a time, I am becoming more and more aware that most are from fire-end-forgetters. I’d say that over 40% of the Observations are by users who have left the arena. Most of the ones we find are titled Moth, have NO notes, scale nor show or generate any further interest. Quite a few have comments or suggestions which are ignored by the Poster.
LOTS of those posted by current and active users have no comments, just a single picture, often bad, with a title Moth Indet and nothing else - part of the HAUL from last night’s session. ‘Light trap on balcony’ or ‘In bedroom’ are common locations!. A few current users (some with four Isons) have more than 20 of these and more are being added weekly…
There is no simple solution, even if there is one at all. But I do believe someone should get a grip of moth posting and, perhaps, add polite comments to try and generate a better level of observing, photographing, posting and perhaps suggest how to write Descriptions or ID notes, maybe even show scale or size.
The night is filled with difficult moths but I fails to see why people trap them and ask for an ID without, seemingly, do any research themselves.
I KNOW, just know, that this view may not be popular.
The moth project is already overflowing.
Moths are not the only Inverts with this issue - have a look for yourselves https://www.ispotnature.org/communities/uk-and-ireland/view/project/770782/uk-invertebrates-without-id
1000 now in the Project
WHO CARES?
Comment and link to unknown moth removed
I’ve removed three observations, iSpotters identified two and the third was transferred to The Moth Project.
Appreciate your help!
A feaf
Take a leaf out of Mark’s book, you Moth-ers
He has no idea what it is and he’s only ever seen one, but he is a good iSpotter. He takes 16 pictures, selects the best 7 and tickles our senses.
I am willing to bet this will have a decent Comment trail soon. (32 reads)
Not only moths, as you say. But I fear I’m falling into the “fire and forget” camp: I spend a lot of time on a post that I’m sure I ought to be able to identify (or find the subject fascinating enough to have a go anyway), but then have to “hurry” through the rest of the new posts (or the moths project): otherwise I can spend hours I don’t really have to spare on the site.
I appreciate yours and Helen’s efforts, though: I promise I’ll try to look at more of the unidentifieds! But I was never good at time management, and since I retired I find I am busier than ever.